Talk:Opera

What about Egypt?!

This topic is missing an important component, if it wasn’t for Cairo opera house, Verdi wouldn’t have been commissioned and paid to compose his most famous work Aïda! I find it ridiculous to talk about the Azerbaijani and Turkish opera and even the Russian one without talking about Egypt’s role! 87.8.139.212 (talk) 22:46, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

Is there Egyptian opera? Because Verdi's - even if performed in Cairo - is Italian. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:57, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

That topic is already covered thoroughly at Opera in Arabic. There isn’t really much to say on the topic, as Western operas have typically been imported to Egypt and sung in their original languages rather than originating in Egypt and sung in Arabic. The most notable exceptions to that are included in that article. Aida, while certainly linked to the history of Western opera in Egypt, is written in the Italian tradition of opera and by a seminal Italian composer in the Italian language. It isn’t an “Egyptian opera” in terms of its cultural and language origins (even if set in Egypt and commissioned for performance in Egypt), being written by Italians in a thoroughly Italian style. The Russian and Czech cultures have produced many operas in their languages and from stories from their cultures that have had a wide impact on the standard opera repertory globally; something that can not be said for the Arabic world as a whole, including Egypt. As such, they rightly deserve more emphasis in this article. We could include a short summation of opera in Arabic in the opera article. 4meter4 (talk) 02:08, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

If you can provide WP:RS then editors can add it in, if not, sadly it will fall under WP:OR. Eruditess (talk) 22:12, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

Should redirect to Western Opera

Article redirects from a search for "Western opera," but it should be the other way around until a more general "opera" entry is created.

Article does not distinguish between operatic traditions in the Western world and those of other regions with Music theatre practices now referred to as "opera." Caersun (talk) 04:06, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

musical theatre* Caersun (talk) 04:22, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Edit: Music theater and musical theater are wrong terms. More accurately, article does not distinguish between Western opera and song-and-theater practices in other regions also called opera. Caersun (talk) 04:32, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

No. The redirect at Western opera and this article name are correct per WP:COMMONNAME. As expected, this article mentions other national operas and musical theatre, Victorian burlesques, operettas, Savoy operas, rock musicals; it doesn't mention rock operas which is understandable because, as that article says, those "are typically released as concept albums and are not scripted for acting". -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 04:52, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Removal of relevant section image

The section on Funding has long had a relevant photo, now replaced by a photo not relevant to that secrtion. I am reinstating the relevant photo. SergeWoodzing (talk) 13:14, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

The image File:Opera singers' tribute to Confidencen 2016 (1).jpg is a very un-operatic picture, and it doesn't illustrate the subject, funding, at all. IMO, no image is needed in that paragraph. Similarly, the image of the the Sydney Opera House in the next section, pretty as it is, doesn't illustrate anything and is pure decoration and ought to be dropped. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 13:35, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Why not read the caption revealing that funding was being celebrated by all those opera singers for the restoration of a 200-year-old opera house? The article is about opera, not just opera performances. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 22:03, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

I did read the caption. I wrote that it doesn't illustrate the subject – which is not surprising, thus, no image is needed in that paragraph. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 04:05, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

The section is about funding. The photo celebrates aka illustrates successful funding. No images are needed anywhere. Relevant images improve this project. This image is relevant, right there. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 22:18, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

I have to agree with Michael. If this were a significant benefit concert to raise money for opera I could see this being a relevant photo, but it appears to just be a picture of performers at a tribute concert to Kjerstin Dellert. That event isn't an opera performance (no costumes, no sets, no story telling; they may be singing opera but this isn't an opera production), nor is it an event to raise money. I don't think it is at all relevant to opera funding. Additionally, the singers are using a pianist on stage, and are not performing to an orchestra. This does not represent opera well. 4meter4 (talk) 00:15, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

If this article was only about, and titled, Opera performance I would agree. But it is not. It's meant to cover everything about opera, including funding, and a celebration of funding, which is exactly what is shown in the photo to illustrate the section. There could not be a more relevant photo for the section. If you wish to remove the photo, it would only be consistent to remove the whole section. Before you do that however, I suggest you consider that there would be no opera without funding, and no funding without gratitude. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 15:55, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

SergeWoodzing That's nonsense. Photos have zero relevance to content inclusion in prose format. We are not required to have photos, and when we do they should have a direct connection to the topic in some fashion. This photo is of a tribute concert in celebration of the singer Kjerstin Dellert and the restoration/re-opening of the Ulriksdal Palace Theater on its 40th aniversary after a rennovation. It would be totally appropriate to have this photo in the Ulriksdal Palace Theater when talking about the re-opening of the theater in that article. While a special lyric honoring the donors or something like that may have been thrown in at that concert, the event itself was not a "fundraiser" and singing was more a way of saying thank you. This is therefore only tangentially connected to the topic of fundraising in opera as it happened after the fundraising occurred and the funds were spent. Additionally, if the argument is that the event happened due to fundraising, that could be said of any opera production staged almost anywhere as fundraising constitutes at least a portion of most opera performances. We have a whole library of opera production photos at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Opera that could be reasonably used under the logic you are putting forward. Lastly, the photo itself is not interesting, and looks amateurish. I don't think it is of good enough quality visually to be used on this page. Given that two editors have clearly indicated it isn't appropriate, I am removing the photo per majority WP:CONSENSUS.

Lastly, given the inappropriateness of the photo, I have to ask: do you have an undisclosed connection to the Ulriksdal Palace Theater/Confidencen, Kjerstin Dellert, the Southerly Clubs of Stockholm (who provided the photo), or one of the performers in the photograph? If so, this is a WP:Conflict of interest, and its inappropriate to attempt to promote a particular theater or artist on the opera page that you are connected to per WP:PROMO.4meter4 (talk) 17:19, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

I am not in any position whatsoever to promote the theatre, the clubs, Ms Dellert (who is dead) nor anyone else involved.

Consensus is never reached by two editors against one in a very brief discussion. You probably know that. But since it seems to be of the utmost importance to you that the Funding section of this article must not have any photo representing funding, and since I do not like to participate in article talk page discussions which turn very personal, I will no longer pursue this. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 17:37, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

@SergeWoodzing That's not true. We have a whole formal process called Wikipedia:Third opinion in dispute resolution which recognizes that two people agreeing on something is a majority consensus in a three participant discussion. I'm sorry, if you thought I was being uncivil, but it is hard to believe that someone without a coi would be making the kind of argument you are currently making. If I was mistaken, I apologize. If you don't have a coi, I suggest you read our policies at Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Images and MOS:TEXTASIMAGES. Best.4meter4 (talk) 17:46, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

I accept your apology and thank you. It seems to be sincere. Have used 3O often, and it recognizes no such thing. In fact it does not recognize anything. It can be used only when two editors, no more, are in disagreement. It gives an unbiased opinion, that's all. I might suggest you not be so quick to use a condescending, masterful attitude toward very experienced logged-in editors who have been active almost daily for 18 years or so. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 19:05, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

I support the removal. WP:IG and WP:IMGCONTENT The purpose of an image is to increase readers' understanding of the article's subject matter, usually by directly depicting people, things, activities, and concepts described in the article. I am not seeing how that picture in dispute helps with this. Graywalls (talk) 00:32, 15 November 2024 (UTC)